Suggestion for the Buy/Sell section

[Namrehs]

Hi James,

In recent weeks/months I've noticed that there are more and more new members (accounts made in 2011 less than 6 months old) on SOFT in the Buy/Sell section. Some are sincere buyers and sellers but I happen to see a lot of these people buying and reselling items a couple of days later at a much higher price. Seen this a couple of times in the Drums Buy/Sell section with new users selling similar kits to those that just got sold recently. Even did a bit of check on the equipment they were selling and they were very similar. Same colour, brand, cymbals, stands etcetc. Just at a higher price and without pictures. Even seen a couple of lowballers and reposting of the same thread in different sections, bumping their ad a few times a day. Not to mention, the rise of Beats earphones replicas.

I personally feel that these users are making use and taking advantage of this free website and this is not doing SOFT any good. Thought of suggesting a way to probably control these users from posting ads until they know how things work on SOFT.

Is it possible if we could block out the classified sections from them until their accounts complete a "probation period" of maybe a couple of months? Perhaps during the "probation period" they will have to complete a number of sign ins into the forum to show that they are active here instead of just waiting to get their hands in the classifieds. Also, maybe reach a number of posts in the forum to show that they are also active in the forum and not just the classifieds? Not sure how this would work and whether there is an automated feature to do this though.

These are just a couple of suggestions that I think might help to improve SOFT. Do let me know if any of whatever I said is against SOFT principles and belief in any way. Apologies to anyone I may/will have offended.

Good day!

 

[Buster]

I agree that buy low sell high classifieds abusers such as Nefianz and Krazysell should be banned but the probation period idea won't work because both of them have joined soft for a long time. What I suggest is for the SOFT to ban them outright when they infringe on the rules of no commercial selling. Ridiculous to see them buy guitar for $60 and sell for $300, making it hard for buyers here especially the students.

 

[Namrehs]

Well, it's just a prevention. I mean, anyone can buy cheap and sell equipments expensive. I don't think that is exactly wrong because in the end after a deal is made, that item is rightfully yours so you can sell it at any price you want. It's just a preventive measure so as to control these buyers who only want to earn a fast buck instead of geniunely looking for equipment they want/need.

 

[cheesedaele]

/like the "Similar Threads" at the bottom of pages. Simple and unobtrusive, also useful for other means. Nice one James.

 

[Jumpin'Jellybean]

Well, it's just a prevention. I mean, anyone can buy cheap and sell equipments expensive. I don't think that is exactly wrong because in the end after a deal is made, that item is rightfully yours so you can sell it at any price you want. It's just a preventive measure so as to control these buyers who only want to earn a fast buck instead of geniunely looking for equipment they want/need.

That's flipping. It's not wrong per se, but if someone's looking to make a quick buck then go start a business, don't buy gear they aren't gonna use merely to earn some money on it. Especially beginner gear, someone who has an interest in music might not be able to afford it and is looking for cheap secondhand stuff. We're here to help each other, not profit from someone else.

 

[Namrehs]

Well, I mean like perhaps someone bought an equipment at a very good deal but after playing/using it, he/she realises that it isn't suitable so decides to sell at the market price (which is a higher price as compared to how much he got it for) since he managed to get it at a good deal. I think it's perfectly fine with that. Not those who buy and sell for the sake of earning and are not genuinely interested in the piece of equipment.

It's a bit sad that there are a couple of cheats and those trying to make a fast buck on SOFT recently.

 

[cheesedaele]

Well, I mean like perhaps someone bought an equipment at a very good deal but after playing/using it, he/she realises that it isn't suitable so decides to sell at the market price (which is a higher price as compared to how much he got it for) since he managed to get it at a good deal. I think it's perfectly fine with that.

The way I see it is however you want to package it, profiteering is profiteering. Heard of "pass it on"? If someone gets something at a good deal, let it go at a good deal. As far someone not adding any value whatsoever, any talk of "market price" is not too far from flipping for profit.

 

[ep.tjan]

I feel somehow offended with this kinda post :

http://soft.com.sg/forum/showthread...S1XXV-Fluorescent-Green?p=1193739#post1193739

I know there's a freedom of speech , but simply accusing is really inappropriate.

 

[superpotato_30]

Eric, go sue that guy. He seems to follow your threads alot. Seems like he is a multi account holder.

Anyway, yes i'm with the idea of preventing newbies from barking on the buy sell section without prior knowledge of how things run here.

 

[soft]

Hey ep.tjan, the many items you listed in the Buy/Sell section, are your selling prices usually lower or higher than the prices you bought them at?

 

[templar03]

Hey ep.tjan, the many items you listed in the Buy/Sell section, are your selling prices usually lower or higher than the prices you bought them at?

So are you going to take in the TS's suggestions regarding the buy/sell forum?

I also hope that the buy/sell forum would be regulated more strictly..

I've been selling stuff lately and been experiencing alot of strange offers, at first lowballing me (even when its stated in my ad that the price is firm) and then even asking me to deliver the item to their doorstep which is also, inevitably located at some remote part of the island.

If only soft members with a certain post count or after a probation can view the ads, sellers can chose to be contacted thru PM only and there should be more accountability in terms of offering responsible offers.

And less lowballing/aeroplane cases etc etc..

 

[Nicholasim]

LOL, speaking about lowballers. I get LOADS of people offering me RIDICULOUS offers.

I sell my item at $50
"Hi, whats your best price?"
"Self collect, $45"
"Bro, $30 i buy from u now"

And this is just one example.. people these days...

 

[ep.tjan]

Hey ep.tjan, the many items you listed in the Buy/Sell section, are your selling prices usually lower or higher than the prices you bought them at?

I woud say reasonably priced according to the market price

 

[BeFair]

I'm selling a mint Fender American for $1200, already losing money on this, then I got lowballed by a guy who offered $950. Before that, he dragged 3 weeks asking questions which were already addressed in my advertisement. So I told him that I already figured out that he isn't serious about buying since he dragged 3 weeks and lowballing is not pleasant, but he had the cheek to throw me lots of insults and continuing until now in PM, even though he is in the wrong. And lets face it, lowballers are not serious buyers they are opportunists, likely to buy for a lowball price then flip for a profit later.

 

[BeFair]

Is there any way we can weed out this lowballing, annoying, irresponsible buyer culture that seems to have sprang up strongly in recent times?

An old post I made about the topic:

Allow me to chip in with my views about buy and sell of gears..


I was active many many years ago in the old Luthermusic classifieds where a huge volume of gear was advertised and traded on a daily basis. I don't know how many of you guys remember it but it was a heaven for buyers and sellers as both parties got what they want and they were happy with it. Lots of nice cool gear popped up and there were ready buyers. It was exciting for buyers and sellers alike to log to surf Luthermusic classifieds back then. Unfortunately, afterwards the classifieds there isn't active and vibrant anymore due to change in format. I heard that it was caused by flaming where people made comments about other people's adverts.

Anyway, recently I stumbled upon this Soft classifieds and decided to sell my guitar, a Fender Standard Strat, for $450. The response was overwhelming and I was swamped with lots of questions from buyers such as


What is the reason for sale?
Why so cheap? Surely got problem.
Can cheaper?
$300 I take
Why no picture?
After sending picture to someone, he said not enough pictures need more pictures. Request complied again then he went MIA.
Woodlands too far for me, deal for $400 at Bedok?
How many frets does it have?

And I'm having a culture shock. I never encountered such things before in the old Luthermusic classifieds. Is it an issue with this website's members or a paradigm shift in the attitude of people? Most of the old Luthermusic classifieds guys were very to the point buyers. They see an advertisement and fancy the gear, they contact the seller to arrange a meeting to test or view, like it then buy on the spot, don't like it no problem can walk away. They don't waste time at all or ask strange questions, or disrespect your price. BTW there were no pictures with the old advertisements at all and buyers didn't even request for pictures. So the fixation with pictures now is odd given the wide scope of Google nowadays and the fact that pictures can't compare to viewing the guitar in your hands. In the old Luthermusic classifieds days I've had a buyer come from JB to meet me, now I've got someone tell me to meet him in Bedok because he finds Woodlands too far for him. Strange that Woodlands is far from him in Bedok but he doesn't find Bedok far from me in Woodlands. And he gave himself a $50 discount while telling me to do that, wow!

I think there should be guidelines in place to educate buyers not to take sellers for granted with various odd requests and questions that we all know goes nowhere. From my initial experience here, I already have a strong feeling that buyers these days are very demanding and unreasonable.

I'll also like to add that a lesson from the old Luthermusic classifieds is that comments on other people's adverts can cause things to go downhill.

Perhaps the other old birds who surfed Luthermusic classifieds back in its heyday and are also in Soft right now can chip in with their insights and experience too.

 

[aremarf]

I think the way it is now seems fine. I don't have any problems. (Maybe because I don't buy and sell gear much.) Lowballers can be ignored. If you wish to protect your privacy, then don't deal using a mobile phone number - deal via PM or an email.

Re-sellers who just flip gear for a profit - well any market will have some. If James chooses to step in to help - that's his prerogative - and kudos to him if he does. However, if James does NOT do a thing (and it's not his responsibility), I think the so-called "price police" many people are decrying are serving a useful function. But SOFTies need to learn to check whether the price police are getting their facts right (preferably with good evidence, e.g. links, screenshots, etc). And price police can learn to be polite and fair (e.g. don't make insinuations about a person's character, when it's not at all related to the buying/selling of stuff) when whistle-blowing - just stick to the facts and evidence.

I do agree, though, that maybe James can consider only letting senior members post in the classifieds (what criteria is debatable) - so as to prevent people making 2nd, 3rd, nth accounts for all sorts of reasons. Maybe James can also consider how to handle antagonistic forum members? We shouldn't condone rude behaviour.


BTW ep.tjan - sorry to hear you're getting abused (re: link you posted). I do intend to defend people's right to highlight how cheap a particular piece/set of gear was before it's bought and THEN resold by any forumer. But I don't think people should be able to insult, slander, or make false claims, etc about any forum user. Anyway freedom of speech cuts both ways - some people hate on you, but others are free to defend you as well, and all forumers can see that those defending you are old-timers who've been in the forum for a bit and judge you accordingly (if they don't know you yet). A forum is a pretty democratic place - let's not take our cue from our "esteemed" ministers and politicians, about how to handle insults.

 

[BeFair]

Other than lowballing and irresponsible buyer behaviour, another problem that I see happening in this forum is troublemaking and posting of antagonistic remarks at people's advertisements.

 

[aremarf]

Can we make a comprehensive (list of) description(s) of what counts as "troublemaking" and "antagonistic remarks"? If we can hammer out a list of undesirable behaviours, then maybe we can get moderators to action such remarks whenever they appear. (If it's not too much work for moderators... that s.)

Why I suggest we need to work out what is fair comment vs genuine troublemaking is so:

1. forumers know what they're allowed to post and what not

2. so we can resolve disputes easily - I think everyone agrees that people who a. point out fakes and scams, and b. reveal that the threadstarter has a bad record (e.g. not showing up for appointments), are adding value to the thread? But that - when someone accuses another of such things, it might then be viewed as "troublemaking"?

 

[superpotato_30]

Question: Is thread spoiling allowed? *( Assuming the item isn't a fake/ Information given about the item is correct ).

Because i've seen nerds that go around typing 'I dont mean to spoil your thread but X place sells this for $YYY cheaper than yours brand new.' Thats equivalent to saying,' hey bro i dont mean to kill you but im gonna have to put this knife through your heart'. Logic?

 

[BeFair]

I suppose not, because spoilers caused the downfall of the old Luthermusic Classifieds, which used to be the #1 used guitar classifieds in Singapore. In its heyday, it was an even more active classifieds than the present day SOFT Classifieds.