Songwriting tips

[EugeneSmasher]

I'm one of those who considers writing good songs more important than being a technically good guitarist / bassist / pianist / etc.

Usually I'd write up the rhythm and melody first before writing the lyrics. But problem with that method is that although the lyrics fit the melody, they don't seem to fit and they lack flow.

On the other hand, I end up not knowing how to proceed if I were to write up the lyrics before the other parts.

So I thought perhaps those of us here who write songs could share some tips. I'm currently in a dry spot and unable to proceed. It's disturbing, honestly. If I can't write good songs, I might as well not play the guitar seriously anymore.

So yeah, lets have some tips. I won't start, though, since I don't have any good tips to offer.

 

[van_halen]

u tried thinking in terms of coming up with a lyrical melody first? lyrical melody + lyrics then guitar/accompaniment melody

 

[EugeneSmasher]

Yeah, I tried that but had some problems... i couldnt make the lyrics flow nicely..

this morning, i did succeed in writing a song. i wrote up the lyrics first, then fitted a melody and rhythm section over it. now the lyrics flow a lot better, but i'm not sure if this method will be successful again in the future. it's a method i havent used in a long time but it seems to be off to a good start.

sometimes i think songwriting depends on a lot of things... sometimes i have to create the melody first, sometimes the lyrics first. guess one tip i can now offer is to keep an open mind haha.

 

[van_halen]

inspiration is the key...

 

[EugeneSmasher]

yup. watched tim burton's alice in wonderland yesterday, i think it influenced my new song this morning somehow. superb movie, i must add! really a must for imaginative minds.

 

[Cheez]

I don't write lyrics - I just can't. I write music. The best songs I've arranged and written music for are the ones when the songwriter didn't have any melody in her mind - only the words. I wrote the music to bring out the words.

First, the songwriter would just write the words. It's just like poetry (sort of). I would spend time with the person to get him/her to explain to me the emotion in the piece, why it's written etc (so I can "feel" the words). Then melody is written. I would usually discover that some words don't fit the timing and rhythm (one or two words need to be taken out, or added in). I would discuss more and see if the writer agrees to change/amend some parts. Changes would be made a few times. End product - a song of which any singer can "sing the words", not just "sing the melody".

Of course, there are times when the songwriter already has the tune in mind (ie written tune + words at the same time, or music before words). I was given the task to arrange and change parts of it. Effect is not as good. It will still sound OK - but emotion is not deep.

 

[boyshafiq]

I'm one of those who considers writing good songs more important than being a technically good guitarist / bassist / pianist / etc.

me too.

me on the other hand, i would come up with the chords first. from verse to chorus then back to verse and so on and so fourth. use different variations, like strumming pattern or plucking. from there, i'll hum to some melodies that i feel that fits. i would normally record them with my handphone, to get a rough idea on how it would sound like when i play it back.

if it sounds nice, then i'll slowly write the lyrics down. it doesn't have to be done and finished on the very same day/night. it can take days, weeks, and even months. The longest i took to write a song was three months.

you know, like sometimes, when walking down the street, at the top of your head, words or phrases comes out from there? it happens to me. i would usually write them down on my notebook or type it in my handphone, and when i get back home, those words or phrases could be part of my lyrics that i am about to write.

don't confine yourself in just writing about love,girls and sadness. be more open. if you are willing, that is. write about things that does not conform to normality, or some things that people don't find it suitable, but if they give it a listen, they may like it. it's kinda like anti-folk music, but at least, you are giving yourself a bit more room to write more.

kinda like one of my songs, titled Emily.

cheers.

 

[sid4iwpa]

this is my song writing tips:

to compose a nice song, the chorus is very impt. you can hv a lousy verse than makes no sense, but if the chorus is nicely done and able to capture pple's heart and emotions, you hv conquer half the world.

for example, a million nice pop songs use this very simple chord progression :

c, minor, f, g seventh
or
c, g on b bass, a minor, and c on g bass.

dun worry about the lousy verse, it's the arranger's job to make it sound interesting..

if you song keeps repeating same notes, you cld change it to a rap song, but of cos, you need to hv very fantastic drum beats or techno beats to boost it up.

when u listen to songs, take note of the chord progression of those songs which u feel that it is nice. chords are the most impt part of a music becos it evokes the feeling and feel and if its nicely chained up together, it stikes a chord in pple's heart. if u hear nice songs, note it donw and copy it's chords. you can use/apply and then modify it during composing, jus that u need to replace it with your own melody.

if u hv no inspiration, i recommend you the random method. how to do it? well, for this method, u jus need to close your eyes and random key about 5 or 6 notes. or, you cld ask someone who does not know music to give anyhow choose 5 or 6 notes and u jus it to create a motif but playing it back in different beats/syncopation. you can use TOTO or first 3 prize of the 4D to create a song.

1=do 2=re 3=mi 4=fa 5=so 6=la 7=ti 8= high do 9=high re 0= a rest beat, can be any beat.

u can also use a sequencer and randomly key punch non-nonsensical notes, and rest beats, then hv to play back by the computer electoncially. if it sounds nice, keep it. else, edit a bit and make it nice.

try it, i know this may sound crazy, but its so simple and fun. u nvr know what to expect...

 

[AvonRellets]

If you're writing an original song to perform live, just have a kick ass intro and a kick ass ending. No one really remembers everything in between unless you get them to buy your CD .... which they will only do if you have a kick ass intro and ending!

 

[centralcatchment]

"I'm one of those who considers writing good songs more important than being a technically good guitarist / bassist / pianist / etc."

I think a lot of us are in agreement with you. Furthermore I observe that a lot of Singaporean bands, while they are good technically, are not that strong in songwriting. Which is why it's curious to me why SOFT has a section on drums, bass, and keyboards, and absolutely nothing about songwriting.

It's hard for me to answer questions about lyrics because I am primarily a songwriter, a writer of music and melodies. But I will try.

There are some things. Songwriters have sometimes used interesting phrases that came out of peoples' mouths. Ringo Starr was bad at grammar so he often said funny things like "It's a hard day's night", and "tomorrow never knows". We all know what happened to those phrases. However the Beatles don't need help, since they are so good at words.

Another time, REM was having a tour, and one of the members said, stop the car I want to go and pee. He wanted to go "night gardening". Bill Berry remembered that and thus, the song "Gardening at Night" was born. (as an aside, I think that Bill Berry must have been one of the best songwriters in REM because they went downhill after he left.)

Another thing is that songwriting is more or less the same as writing a speech. So all the techniques of composition apply here. Find a theme, elaborate on that theme, and tell a story. Make sure the whole thing has a constant theme. One of the most consistent things is situation. So imagine a situation and act it out with words. Later on, maybe refine the language, but if the meaning of the words has a flow, then eventually the words will have a flow.

Of course there is something you can never get around: brush up on your English. ABBA may have written good songs without being good at English, but some of the lyrics were really rotten. So brush up on your English. Be a bookworm and read more books.

There is a school of thought that lyrics are not meant to be poetry, but they must sound authentic, like somebody actually said something like that. Case in point, "By the time I get to Phoenix", which is a blow by blow account of somebody attempting to leave his lover.

Or there was one time when John Lennon had a conversation with Peter Fonda (who was on drugs) like this:
PF: I know what it's like to be dead
JL: Who put all that shit in your head?

Go and google the lyrics of "She Said She Said" to find out what John Lennon did with the piece of inspiration.

This is how the Rolling Stones wrote words for "Exile". Mick Jagger just sang nonsense words into the microphone and wrote down what the words sounded like. Then the meaning is a little nonsensical but it will sound correct.

The easiest solution is to get somebody to write lyrics for you.

 

[Jumpin'Jellybean]

I prefer writing lyrics first, then fitting a melody and rhythm onto it.
That way it revolves more around the lyrics. I take it you're writing pop songs?
And sometimes if it don't really fit i change the words abit. But for me, always lyrics first.

 

[EugeneSmasher]

Not exactly pop. I consider lyrics very important, but usually I write songs ranging from country-rock, pop-rock and soft rock all the way to heavy rock.

 

[EugeneSmasher]

don't confine yourself in just writing about love,girls and sadness. be more open. if you are willing, that is. write about things that does not conform to normality, or some things that people don't find it suitable, but if they give it a listen, they may like it. it's kinda like anti-folk music, but at least, you are giving yourself a bit more room to write more.

Actually, I haven't bothered with relationships so I never write about those topics. Usually my lyrics concern bullying, modern society, conformity, stuff like that. Was bullied quite a bit in the past so I use that a lot as my inspiration. I also like abstract topics and lyrics that don't seem to make sense haha.

 

[Vocalistman]

Although I am not a fan of Rap songs, I usually amazed at how these artistes bombard their lyrics simultaneously, non-stop.. Like Jay-Z or Mike Shinoda or Eminem

These people have a good sentences they would infuse to their lyrics and super effective if you want to develop your flow. You just have to adapt it to suit your own style of music.

Go check them out

IMO, lyrics may not be so complicated. But you need to have the catchy hook tat can stuck in listener's mind. For example;

Adam Lambert's Whatdya Want From Me? His verse are standard lyrics, then chorus gotta admit it's retarded lyrics. But hey, his melody instantaneously get stuck in my mind.

Something like that might help I guess

 

[qwertyx]

i think u just need to listen to a lot of songs and learn how to play a lot of songs (i mean a lot haha. After that v naturally u train yr melody sense and can come up with a song anytime. Thats how i train myself.

You cant just force yrself to write a song.. even u can, it wont sound nice or original

 

[AgingYouth]

If you're writing an original song to perform live, just have a kick ass intro and a kick ass ending. No one really remembers everything in between unless you get them to buy your CD .... which they will only do if you have a kick ass intro and ending!

Does having metal fans blow at you during the solo count? Would it help?

 

[van_halen]

Although I am not a fan of Rap songs, I usually amazed at how these artistes bombard their lyrics simultaneously, non-stop.. Like Jay-Z or Mike Shinoda or Eminem

These people have a good sentences they would infuse to their lyrics and super effective if you want to develop your flow. You just have to adapt it to suit your own style of music.

Go check them out

IMO, lyrics may not be so complicated. But you need to have the catchy hook tat can stuck in listener's mind. For example;

Adam Lambert's Whatdya Want From Me? His verse are standard lyrics, then chorus gotta admit it's retarded lyrics. But hey, his melody instantaneously get stuck in my mind.

Something like that might help I guess

the thing is, there's nothing musical about rap. and their lyrics make no sense. so it's a really bad example to follow if you want to write songs (especially good songs).

 

[Dayvid]

I'm one of those who considers writing good songs more important than being a technically good guitarist / bassist / pianist / etc.

Usually I'd write up the rhythm and melody first before writing the lyrics. But problem with that method is that although the lyrics fit the melody, they don't seem to fit and they lack flow.

On the other hand, I end up not knowing how to proceed if I were to write up the lyrics before the other parts.

So I thought perhaps those of us here who write songs could share some tips. I'm currently in a dry spot and unable to proceed. It's disturbing, honestly. If I can't write good songs, I might as well not play the guitar seriously anymore.

So yeah, lets have some tips. I won't start, though, since I don't have any good tips to offer.

Hi EugeneSmasher,

I agree with your point about writing good songs. However, being technically proficient in your instrument may also help you to write better due to the extra music knowledge you pick up along the way. Then again, it's a complimentary thing I guess. I have seen very good musicians rip their instruments like a god but when it comes to songwriting, it does not do much justice. I guess at the end of the day, it all boils down to...

...what is your priority?

Do you want to be a guitar virtuoso? Do you want to be a singer-songwriter? Do you want to be just a very good songwriter? Etc.

I think knowing what your goals are can really help you to move in the right direction - consciously and sub-consciously.

To bring up a point from one of the earlier posts from a fellow member, he mentioned about how local bands are not really strong in their songwriting. I agree with that but then again, what are the directions of these bands? If they really want to make it as a strong songwriting band, then I think they need to do something about it. It's pretty to sad very technical pro bands losing out due to poor songwriting. They just need to find the right guidance and have the right attitude to be willing to learn!

Perhaps some of us may feel that writing "catchy" songs is like selling-out. I've been through that phase in life that is why I can't help but emphasise the need to know your goals. If you are just writing for leisure, then that is fine. But when songwriting becomes something more serious, then I guess we have to think logically and be realistic at times.

EugeneSmaher, try to make amendments to your lyrics after you finish your melody and chords. In your situation, maybe you can use "rough" words to just help you catch the flow of the melody first before you fill in the actual lyrics.

Also, don't give up. Play the guitar because it brings you joy and not because it helps you to write songs. I've seen people writing "away" from their instrument and come out tops. Hang on in there pal, and keep writing to treat it as practice. You will see the benefits.

Cheers!

You can read up more about me at :
http://blog.omy.sg/dayvidfoo/

 

[EugeneSmasher]

Thanks for the tips, Dayvid. My priority is actually a mix of both. Guitarist-songwriter, I suppose. I want to write good songs and perform them on the guitar, but ideally I'd have someone with a better voice do the singing.

 

[EugeneSmasher]

the thing is, there's nothing musical about rap. and their lyrics make no sense. so it's a really bad example to follow if you want to write songs (especially good songs).

Agree. I don't hear any melody or musicality from either the vocals or the music.

*No offense to rap lovers. I just can't dig rap music.