Streaming samples... RAID or Dedicated HDD?

[digital]

Hello all, for all the virtual instruments...

is it better for me to run RAID disk stripping or have a dedicated disk for the streaming of samples? ---

" For starters, install the Ivory Items folder on its own dedicated hard drive, at least 7200 RPM. Note that internal laptop drives are slower than this. Also take into account the hard drive interface. SATA is perhaps the best choice these days, but if this isn't convenient, choose Firewire 800 if you can.

Consider creating a two-disk striped RAID with a fast interface like SATA or Firewire 800. RAID arrays can easily be made on OS X using Apple's Disk Utility program. " -from synthogy ivory tips

any ideas? thanks.

 

[dir]

why would you need RAID? it doesn't make anything faster. Unless you are concerned about losing valuable data, I don't really see a need for it.

 

[Cheez]

Some RAID arrays theoretically makes reading and writing faster. However for sample streaming, real-life situations (ie many reports) shows that RAID is actually slower. Go for a dedicated SATA drive.

Are you using other samples? If you're only using Ivory, then no point using 2 dedicated RAID drives - you don't need that much space. And it's definitely not recommended to use RAID for both your sample drive and the drive for your programs/windows/data etc. Messes things up. Dedicated HD solves everything and it's cleaner.

Remember - the seek time of the HD is the limiting factor. Don't get fooled by the RPM. Different 7200rpm drives perform differently. Check the specs. Most 7200rpm usually don't have any major problems particularly if you're not using sample streaming heavily (ie only a few instruments). My sample pallete usually has 30 instruments or more, so seek time becomes a very important factor.

 

[gutturalpiss]

RAID is not only for backup, large data management corporations look to SCSI RAID for speed also.

I can't say for sure, never tried. Like Cheez stated, theoretically yes but maybe RL no.

 

[logicdroid]

My experience with raid....
Raid's better for video, a dedicated WD Raptor SATA drive works better for streaming samples. Cheez, gutralpiss, will you consider being a guest and be a part of my Logic Studio workshop?
I've already got the green light from the companies. It's on the way. PM me if you're interested?

 

[digital]

Ok, so I guess no to RAID. Btw, Vista doesnt work out well for any form of audio production right? I mean it's a RAM hog?

 

[Cheez]

Yes, it does take up both CPU and RAM resources more than XP. If possible, stick with XP.

Having said that, I'm currently planning on a machine to replace my almost dead one. I'll be using Vista but in 64-bit so I can utilise more RAM (planning for 8GB of RAM). But has to choose software very carefully since not all audio apps support 64 bit, although more audio apps are moving into 64-bit compared other apps. Plan to dual boot in 32 and 64 bit.

logicdroid, sorry but I'll only be back in S'pore during July. And since it's a Logic workshop, I would imagine the key focus would be on Logic. Btw, I'm still using Logic - Windows version. Trying to crossgrade. Very sad when they decided not to support PC any longer.

 

[digital]

I have 4gb ram here, so I m wondering if I should go with Vista instead . There seems to be a limit of 3.2GB of ram on XP reading up on the net.

Can anyone confirm this?

 

[godchuanz]

There is a limit of 4GB addressable memory in all 32-bit systems. Take away some addresses for other components in your PC, you are left with an amount somewhere between 3GB-4GB. This limit applies for both 32-bit versions of XP and Vista, not just XP.

The only real way for the OS to see the full 4GB of RAM is use a 64-bit OS (Win XP 64-bit or Vista 64-bit).

 

[Cheez]

XP can only harness up to max of 3GB - using the /3GB switch (discussed previously in other threads). If you don't use the switch, XP can only use up to 2GB RAM.

Vista (32 bit) can only use up to 4GB. But as godchuanz said, 3-4GB of the RAM is usually reserved for other resources like graphics etc. So in real life, you get only about 3GB.

64 bit (XP x64 or Vista 64) can theoretically go up to 128GB of RAM.

But in your situation, 3GB will be enough - more than enough if you are only using Ivory. The amount of RAM determines the number of samples you can load. I'm able to load lots with only 2GB of RAM (and I use lots of them in one go!). Sample streaming works by loading only the first portion of the sample into the RAM (pre-loading) to cut down latency. The first portion is streamed off the RAM while the rest is done by the HD. So if you have a 2GB instrument, you won't be utilising all 2GB RAM (in fact, only a fraction of the RAM is used).

VSTi (synths) are different. They WILL utilise lots of RAM (and CPU). This is again depending on the instrument itself (some are more hungry than others). So the amount of RAM you need depends on your setup. If you're using sampling, 2GB is sufficient in most cases. If you are going to be using heavy VST plugins, then RAM is more of a concern.

Back to your point - XP would probaly be sufficient. Use the /3GB switch and you can use up to 3GB of RAM, which is more than sufficient in most cases. Going to Vista may give you slightly more RAM (very slight) but don't forget Vista is more CPU hungry than XP. There's the trade-off. It's therefore not worth the while to migrade from XP to Vista - unless you are talking about Vista 64 bit (and you have a powerful machine).

 

[digital]

Ok then, since I dont have the OEM cd for XP- (all my XPs came preloaded with the computers i purchase) I guess I will install Vista because that's the only OS i have at the moment. Vista isn't "that bad" right?

Will disable the fancy effects (I think it's called AERO) the 3D flipping of windows in vista and heavy graphical alt-tabbing. I think disabling these things should be able to bring Vista down to a less CPU/memory consuming OS.

I hope vista isnt as disasterous as I think it will be.

 

[ac]

vista will probably suck your soul.

 

[gutturalpiss]

All 64-bit operating systems consume more memory due to the larger addressing range, but we can't complain if we're allowed to use a lot of it :mrgreen:

Now, "only 64-bit OS can use > 4GB RAM" is a little bit of a misconception. Take a look at Physical Address Extension (PAE), which any machine >= i386 (Pentium Pro or higher) can utilise.

"32-bit OS can only use 3 - 3.5GB of RAM" is also not true. Just changing 2 options in the Linux kernel lets a 32-bit machine/OS address full 4G, and 64GB using PAE.

While it's fairly easy on Linux-based platforms, it may not be that difficult on Windows either especially with Vista: The Geeks Week - Enabling PAE on 32-bit Windows Vista

If I were to "upgrade" to Vista, I'd go for x86_64.

 

[godchuanz]

PAE is more like a hack to get more addressable memory, but may bring about some problems with memory sharing. If you want to use PAE, you also need to make sure that your mainboard supports it.

I think if you need more than 4GB, the real solution is to go for a 64-bit OS. If I were to go 64bit, I'll go for XP 64-bit. But seriously, I doubt most people even need >3GB now, for streaming samples or doing other audio work.

 

[Cheez]

Yes, we still need lots of RAM if we use heavy samples. Nowadays, samples are getting larger. So pre-loading takes up more RAM than usual. It's getting hard to load an entire orchestral template on one PC. It applies to us who does orchestral music - orchestral samples are the largest out there and we load lots of instruments. There's a catch though - the limiting factor is still the HD. So although one can load lots of large samples, the HD may not be able to take it and streaming will become a problem. So in this case, we'll need 2 dedicated HD for samples (to distribute the samples between 2 drives). For those who use pretty standard samples, 2-3GB is more than sufficient.

Also for those who uses lots of plug-ins, they may need lots of RAM. The catch here is the CPU - so although they can load lots of VST plugins, the CPU may not be able to take it.

So in a way, it's a balance between all the components. RAM is only one of them.

 

[Cheez]

For customizing Vista (getting rid of the bloat and making it faster) - there's a free software called vLite.

vLite - Windows Vista configuration tool

I've not tried it - since I've not installed Vista...yet. I use XPlite paid version(LitePC Technologies) for customizing my XP - and it's excellent. Too bad they don't have a Vista version.

 

[digital]

Oh one more thing, regarding 64bit vista - is it incompatible with many programs and driver support is poor ?

so to speak, with vista64- there might be problems with software+hardware compatibility at this point of time?

 

[Cheez]

If we are talking about DAW (since the topic is about streaming samples), many audio interfaces are becoming 64 bit compatible. Echo products are 64-bit compatible, M-audio are now in beta version for their 64-bit products etc. And DAW software-wise, not all are 64-bit compatible but are moving fast. DAW: Sonar 7 is 64-bit, Cubase 4 is trying to be (they have a preview version); other samplers like Gigastudio, the Garritan ARIA player, the East West PLAY engine are all 64-bit, Kontakt is developing 64-bit now.

So yes, you have to be careful in choosing your software and hardware. But in the DAW arena, things should move faster into 64-bit. If you are really considering Vista and 64-bit, you can get Vista Ultimate which lets you install in both 32 and 64 bit. You can dual boot in both 32 and 64 bit environment (which is what I'm going to do).

 

[Cheez]

Forgot to add, many 32-bit software can run under 64-bit environment.

 

[digital]

Oh, so most softwares can run under 64bit environment. thats nice to hear! since things are moving fast, i m gonna settle for a 64bit OS then .. should be more effective in the long run.