One of my worst experiences with a sound engineer!!!
- Thread starter alvinthedrummer
- Start date
triphopbob
New member
After reading the first post, made a wild guess, wahlah! should have known...Jamming studio "Typical Nasty Arrogant Think-They-know-It-All So-called Sound Engineers"....
No band is safe with these guys behind the board, cuz the only thing these bird-brains ever figured out about the board are the Volume faders....
Anyway, looking at the current situation, i would conclude that these guys are still the same after all these years...No wonder the music scene can't progress, generally speaking. Cuz no matter how far the bands have progressed over the years, they will always be hindered by these "bo-chap" support of our local "Sound Engineers".
No band is safe with these guys behind the board, cuz the only thing these bird-brains ever figured out about the board are the Volume faders....
Anyway, looking at the current situation, i would conclude that these guys are still the same after all these years...No wonder the music scene can't progress, generally speaking. Cuz no matter how far the bands have progressed over the years, they will always be hindered by these "bo-chap" support of our local "Sound Engineers".
Its not nice to be "pointing fingers", adding more fuel to fire, and witch hunting.
Like any industry, its tough in Singapore. That's why you have lots of monkeys to go with the peanut food.
Let me ask you, (if you drive). Do you like taxi drivers?? The most likely answer is that they are all the suckiest drivers around. But the truth is that a bunch of rotten apples make the whole basket look bad.
Same with sound engineers. The hours long, the hauling tough, the mental aganoizing, the money??? Let just say well paid engineers are scarce.
Being an sound tech myself, I have seen many peers with no feel for the job, poor technical knowledge, some with a bad temper to boot too.
But does not mean that all are like that. I know quite a few who are so dedicated to their profession that they personnally take care even the small details that stage crews leave out. Running from board to stage, and back umpteen times.
Let me share a personal experience which you can try.
I went to setup for a show to just supply the K-ok playback system, and to patch the other supplier sound system. This is the instruction from the organiser.
Upon setup, they told me that their contract does not include the patch in and they won't let me patch to their system.
So I ask them to check with their boss, to confirm. Which they did.
Rather than to argue with them, I bring this matter to the next level. The organiser to let them sort it out.
The organiser then tried to reason with them, but to no avail. They stood fast. All this while time ticking away.
Then I tell the organiser that if they wanted to K-ok on, I would charge a norminal extra to bring in my own set of speakers and mics.
The organiser relented, and I brought in my stuffs and set it up along side with the other supplier. End up they only used their system for the GOH speech. And there were 2 seperate systems there, damm funny.
In the end, the organiser was extremely pissed off with the other supplier stiff ways.
Moral of the story, no use to get into a fight fest. If reasoning with the same level fail, bring in the next level of management to sort it out. Like that you don't look bad either way as you have gone by the proper channel.
Like any industry, its tough in Singapore. That's why you have lots of monkeys to go with the peanut food.
Let me ask you, (if you drive). Do you like taxi drivers?? The most likely answer is that they are all the suckiest drivers around. But the truth is that a bunch of rotten apples make the whole basket look bad.
Same with sound engineers. The hours long, the hauling tough, the mental aganoizing, the money??? Let just say well paid engineers are scarce.
Being an sound tech myself, I have seen many peers with no feel for the job, poor technical knowledge, some with a bad temper to boot too.
But does not mean that all are like that. I know quite a few who are so dedicated to their profession that they personnally take care even the small details that stage crews leave out. Running from board to stage, and back umpteen times.
Let me share a personal experience which you can try.
I went to setup for a show to just supply the K-ok playback system, and to patch the other supplier sound system. This is the instruction from the organiser.
Upon setup, they told me that their contract does not include the patch in and they won't let me patch to their system.
So I ask them to check with their boss, to confirm. Which they did.
Rather than to argue with them, I bring this matter to the next level. The organiser to let them sort it out.
The organiser then tried to reason with them, but to no avail. They stood fast. All this while time ticking away.
Then I tell the organiser that if they wanted to K-ok on, I would charge a norminal extra to bring in my own set of speakers and mics.
The organiser relented, and I brought in my stuffs and set it up along side with the other supplier. End up they only used their system for the GOH speech. And there were 2 seperate systems there, damm funny.
In the end, the organiser was extremely pissed off with the other supplier stiff ways.
Moral of the story, no use to get into a fight fest. If reasoning with the same level fail, bring in the next level of management to sort it out. Like that you don't look bad either way as you have gone by the proper channel.
alvinthedrummer
New member
Yup, they are located at Sembawang. Short guy that wears specs..you got that right!
In fact we were supporting the event. The organizers invited our students to perform and we made every effort we could to make it happen. The students respected the event 100% had spent so much effort rehearsing and getting ready for the show. Its hard to see them so disappointed and all because of one unreasonable guy.
His tone was so belittling from the start but for the sake of my students I held back whatever I could hoping that I could still get the show running for them. Honestly, it really doesn't matter who Keith is supporting, regardless if they are newbies, experienced players, played in major concert halls before or not....there shouldn't be any discrimination. If only everyone could just be sincere and respectful towards each other.....damn sad.
And for those younger helpers, I just hope for their own good that they check their behaviours before they meet some real big-time thugs.
Mikemann is right. Not all engineers are like this. I know of many nice ones and funny thing is, these are the guys that really know their stuff! My favourite sound engineer is still John who often work with Boon Musical. He has done so many big concerts but yet humble as hell! Singapore does have some good engineers, its just the handful that we really need to watch out for.
For the curious: this was gonna be the drum set up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWPWL0Pjr3M&feature=channel).....and these were the exact same PA speakers that Keith were using. Even if they were crappy behringers, there is no way the mini floor tom could blow up anything, unless of course the engineer cranks up the volume too high...
In fact we were supporting the event. The organizers invited our students to perform and we made every effort we could to make it happen. The students respected the event 100% had spent so much effort rehearsing and getting ready for the show. Its hard to see them so disappointed and all because of one unreasonable guy.
His tone was so belittling from the start but for the sake of my students I held back whatever I could hoping that I could still get the show running for them. Honestly, it really doesn't matter who Keith is supporting, regardless if they are newbies, experienced players, played in major concert halls before or not....there shouldn't be any discrimination. If only everyone could just be sincere and respectful towards each other.....damn sad.
And for those younger helpers, I just hope for their own good that they check their behaviours before they meet some real big-time thugs.
Mikemann is right. Not all engineers are like this. I know of many nice ones and funny thing is, these are the guys that really know their stuff! My favourite sound engineer is still John who often work with Boon Musical. He has done so many big concerts but yet humble as hell! Singapore does have some good engineers, its just the handful that we really need to watch out for.
For the curious: this was gonna be the drum set up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWPWL0Pjr3M&feature=channel).....and these were the exact same PA speakers that Keith were using. Even if they were crappy behringers, there is no way the mini floor tom could blow up anything, unless of course the engineer cranks up the volume too high...
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Hi Alvin,
Nice Hip gig set you have there. Would be great if you had a bass player along with your band. Your singer got quite a powerful voice from the sound of the vid.
If more bands would play on a hip gig, setup would be much less of a hassle.
Sometime organisers don't have a clue of what is needed, so they leave out a lot of things on the technical side. The supplier could be clueless of what to expect. But something as reasonable as 2 mics on the side is not too much to ask for.
But I know some suppliers are very hard up on these issues. Sometime due to their technical limitations, sometime due to budget constrain. Some don't want to 'spoil market' and go the extra mile.
Anyway, behringer stuffs are ok if you know how to apply, some stuff rocks too. It's easy if you know your own stuffs.
Please try me out sometime if you want to. I like to do band gigs. Cheers.
Nice Hip gig set you have there. Would be great if you had a bass player along with your band. Your singer got quite a powerful voice from the sound of the vid.
If more bands would play on a hip gig, setup would be much less of a hassle.
Sometime organisers don't have a clue of what is needed, so they leave out a lot of things on the technical side. The supplier could be clueless of what to expect. But something as reasonable as 2 mics on the side is not too much to ask for.
But I know some suppliers are very hard up on these issues. Sometime due to their technical limitations, sometime due to budget constrain. Some don't want to 'spoil market' and go the extra mile.
Anyway, behringer stuffs are ok if you know how to apply, some stuff rocks too. It's easy if you know your own stuffs.
Please try me out sometime if you want to. I like to do band gigs. Cheers.
alvinthedrummer
New member
Mikemann: will do and Tks for your compliments. By the way, now market is terrible, it's either the drummers or the bassists who gets chopped. No choice.
Anyway, the same students will be performing at The Crazy Elephants this Sunday from 9pm to 9.30pm. Come show your support for some young musicians and as well as John Chee's band from The Crazy Elephant!
Anyway, the same students will be performing at The Crazy Elephants this Sunday from 9pm to 9.30pm. Come show your support for some young musicians and as well as John Chee's band from The Crazy Elephant!
soundwavesmm
New member
Shure mics
We have used shure mics to mic-up s**t load of percussionists and the only thing we blew were prolly some peoples ears!
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=soundwaves+multimedia+terror+club&aq=f
We have used shure mics to mic-up s**t load of percussionists and the only thing we blew were prolly some peoples ears!
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=soundwaves+multimedia+terror+club&aq=f
alvinthedrummer
New member
Haha!! Funny one soundwavesmm!
confused
New member
hi,i'm sorry but my opinion is that you should write in black and white that if anything were to happen to any of the products,you will be responsible.maybe that will ease the guy's worries.and i think why should you or the bassist insist on an explanation?i guess even if he were to explain,you guys still won't listen since he already explain in the first place that it will blow up.i think we should try not to depend on the gears so much and improve our attitude and music and stop to acting like rockstars.sorry.my opinions.
alvinthedrummer
New member
I am kinda confused too....
We wanted a detailed explanation as to how mic'ing up a mini floor tom with a SM58 will blow up the PA speakers. He didn't explain that. Besides, why can't we insist? We were the clients and the sound company were paid real money to do their job for us. Even the organizer understood that and has since written an official apology to us. At least they weren't confused.
If every show needs a black and white disclaimer simply because the engineer is incompetent, then the organizer might be better off looking for a new sound company......I do this for a living...trust me, I ain't confused.
Urm...I don't think anyone is acting like "rockstars" here since we were just asking for the minimal. Ah Bengs on the other hand there were 4, the sound engineer and his crew.
I think we really should improve not only our attitude but also our mentality. We should try to improve our professionalism in all ways possible. If we can't afford good gear, we try to make do and make the best out of what we have and give our 101% regardless. However, that doesn't mean we should not try to obtain good gear and sound when we can. If we always adopt the hippy attitude and be overly "chin-cai" with everything, then our performance quality will never improve.
Hope this clears up some of the confusion....
We wanted a detailed explanation as to how mic'ing up a mini floor tom with a SM58 will blow up the PA speakers. He didn't explain that. Besides, why can't we insist? We were the clients and the sound company were paid real money to do their job for us. Even the organizer understood that and has since written an official apology to us. At least they weren't confused.
If every show needs a black and white disclaimer simply because the engineer is incompetent, then the organizer might be better off looking for a new sound company......I do this for a living...trust me, I ain't confused.
Urm...I don't think anyone is acting like "rockstars" here since we were just asking for the minimal. Ah Bengs on the other hand there were 4, the sound engineer and his crew.
I think we really should improve not only our attitude but also our mentality. We should try to improve our professionalism in all ways possible. If we can't afford good gear, we try to make do and make the best out of what we have and give our 101% regardless. However, that doesn't mean we should not try to obtain good gear and sound when we can. If we always adopt the hippy attitude and be overly "chin-cai" with everything, then our performance quality will never improve.
Hope this clears up some of the confusion....
jackofjills
New member
Off topic
In my 18 yrs of music background, i have not found a single engineer that does a good job. Maybe if u are lucky, thats abt it. But yet they are not too blame.....Its being done for the money...whether its in the studio or live. Unlike signed artiste....their engineers have to answer to bigger ranks if they screw anything up.
So the best engineer you can find is yourself. Understand your limited equiptments n make the best u can out of it. That definetly beats paying some douche bag a lump sum of money, who doesnt even know what u have in ur mind or ur vision, all he knows in his mind is that he is getting paid. Its just a waste of effort. Recording wise that is.
Live wise its yet not their fault, they are not on ur crew......so they dont know wat we want.....everyone is to be blamed.!!!!!!!!
Pardon me im just being chatty today
I might be off topic but i tot id just like to say that
In my 18 yrs of music background, i have not found a single engineer that does a good job. Maybe if u are lucky, thats abt it. But yet they are not too blame.....Its being done for the money...whether its in the studio or live. Unlike signed artiste....their engineers have to answer to bigger ranks if they screw anything up.
So the best engineer you can find is yourself. Understand your limited equiptments n make the best u can out of it. That definetly beats paying some douche bag a lump sum of money, who doesnt even know what u have in ur mind or ur vision, all he knows in his mind is that he is getting paid. Its just a waste of effort. Recording wise that is.
Live wise its yet not their fault, they are not on ur crew......so they dont know wat we want.....everyone is to be blamed.!!!!!!!!
Pardon me im just being chatty today
I might be off topic but i tot id just like to say that
Mic'ing up sh*t load of percussionists!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ0eIlu6pTQ&feature=related
Ah beng engineers should learn a thing or 2 from there!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ0eIlu6pTQ&feature=related
Ah beng engineers should learn a thing or 2 from there!
It's either that or its because even after 18yrs of experience, you still suck at playing your music live.
whyuforcemetosignup
New member
The Chinese has this phrase "A knife hidden behind a smile"...
this best sums up the guy you people are talking about. The nicest smile all but always talk shit behind your back after the smile. I know from experience.
It's funny they are still around.
this best sums up the guy you people are talking about. The nicest smile all but always talk shit behind your back after the smile. I know from experience.
It's funny they are still around.
serialninja
New member
hm well i generally think that it's the band's job to work with the sound engineers to make sure the on-stage monitoring is adequate. but when it comes to front-of-house or setups, it's best to leave them to deal with it.
if you leave the soundman to do his job, he may be incompetent but at least he will try and get you sounding ok. but if you piss a soundman off, he will MAKE SURE you sound like shit during your set.
don't piss off the person who controls how you sound.
if you leave the soundman to do his job, he may be incompetent but at least he will try and get you sounding ok. but if you piss a soundman off, he will MAKE SURE you sound like shit during your set.
don't piss off the person who controls how you sound.
alvinthedrummer
New member
But the engineer must be willing to work with the band!! An honestly, if he is incompetent he is incompetent. How can he be incompetent and still make you sound ok?
In the first place no one is thrashing out nonsense. We are all reasonable people. If he gave us the respect and listen to what we have to say and in turn, take a few minutes to explain in detail what his thoughts were, everything could have turned out much better. This is called a civil discussion. Not shut us up like the fastest gun slinger and leave us with the most absurd & illogical answer....
In the first place no one is thrashing out nonsense. We are all reasonable people. If he gave us the respect and listen to what we have to say and in turn, take a few minutes to explain in detail what his thoughts were, everything could have turned out much better. This is called a civil discussion. Not shut us up like the fastest gun slinger and leave us with the most absurd & illogical answer....
Thats impossible!
In that case, even if i give you Metallica's rig and sound crew, u will still prolly sound like sh$t!
