Anti P2P(Pay to Play) organization Up and Ready !!!

[ShyamRaj]

Hi everyone ,

firstly i want to appolagize for the long wait. Reason being i had to get done with my exams and tie up with these great people for the anti p2p (pay to play) organization.

Secondly i would like to stress that this is a non-profit organization so we do need as many volunteers to get this moving well. We have got people like Timbre , Cross Roads Magazine and Mesh Radio who have come forward to help in this and as we move along i will tell you how they will be helping the bands.

We have had this talk before in the previous thread so as most of you are aware this movement is to stop the pay to play tradition, give better recognition/exposure to young bands and protect bands from being exploited .

Setting up a website would have been too much hastle as i am hopless with codings and using Myspace would be easier to network the bands.

How does it work ?

Bands add anti P2p on their myspace as friends. On the friends section they will come across many other bands who like them , are keen in organising their own gigs(Also known as DIY shows) . So here is an example .

Band A would like to organise a show to expose themselves.

Band A adds us Anti P2P and finds bands of the genres they want.

Band A links up with Band B and C by messaging them saying something like
"hey i found you this website, are you interested to work a show out ? "

So now band A, B and C agree upon chipping money into it and now need more exposure for the gig they are organizing. So this is when anti p2p comes in.

Upon being approached, we will help the bands with ideas into how they can make the gig better by linking them with bigger more well known bands who mite be willing to help them out by playing in the show .

Anti P2p will also let them know potential venues that they can get with their budget and hopefully even help get discounts from venues.

If the band is not professional with poster designs , Anti P2p will link them up with photographers/designers for their event.

ONLY IF THE EVENT IS A DIY GIG/ORGANISERS GIVING BENEFITS TO THE ARTIST WILL THESE HELP BE PROVIDED.

Anti P2p will send down gig reviewers from Cross Roads Magazine to review your gig which will be published in the following month and distributed islandwide. (Xroads is the highest distributed mag in sing) However we are only limited to two gigs. Bands will also be interviewed on it.

Demos and CD's of bands that organised a DIY show will be handed over to the good hands of Timbre who will pick one band that they like to perform at Timbre . (to stand a higher chance , have good recordings)
I understand that metal bands mite be thinking how are you gonna perform there ? We are not saying you wont be able to be chosen but i am scouting for metal venues for you guys...

Bands that organize a DIY show will have their songs regardless of genre chosen to be played on Meshradio. A podcast station that receives 30000 hits a day.. Also , your gig will be publicised on it...

All you gotta do ?

Instead of selling 20 tickets for organisers who dont give a cent back to you , get together maybe 5 bands . Each of you put in maybe 200 bucks .

Considering your band has 4 members. This equals to each member putting in 50 bucks.

with 5 bands doing the same you now have a pool of a 1000 bucks.

Each band sells 20 tickets at 10 bucks each . This will equal to 5 bands selling 100 tickets which would cover a 1000 bucks. if you could sell more good for you coz you know why?
You enjoy all these benefits that a normal scum sucking organiser that makes you pay for unsold tix and hold your i.c could never give and KEEP ALL THE MONEY TO YOURSELVES.

I'll be adding in videos and interviews with a step by step on the site soon aswell as some motivational words by some of our local boyz to tell you how to do your own show and why to stop p2p...

I must be very honest to you. I have gone thru so much to make this moving and i cant do it all by myself. I really do need help to make this work for you guys.

Here is the help i need

Gig reviewers
(who will get their stuff published on cross roads magazine )Good for your portfolio aswell!

Photographers. ( To help new bands with some gig shots)

Web designers ( to make the myspace look nice )

Inside team ( to link bands up and advice them)

Bigger more well known bands to help support DIY gigs by playing in their shows to brand it .

Logo Designer ( My logo rite now looks like crap)

DJ's to volunteer for meshradio on certain shows..

Studios (to give a discounted rate for bands who book you for a gig (only if its DIY) )

Soundmen

Any other form of help

The website is

www.myspace.com/antip2psg

add away and spread the love..


Any questions ?

 

[hifi_killer]

The part on bands organizing diy shows, thats a bit idealistic.

the way i see it its still the same, bands still have to fork out their own money, its still pay to play.

Perhaps you might wanna reach out to youth organizations for funds to lessen the financial burden on the bands.

 

[ShyamRaj]

The part on bands organizing diy shows, thats a bit idealistic.

the way i see it its still the same, bands still have to fork out their own money, its still pay to play.

Perhaps you might wanna reach out to youth organizations for funds to lessen the financial burden on the bands.

The aim of the movement if you read, is to stop pay to play shows and encourage DIY Shows...

When bands sell tickets for organisers such as ultrasound and many others they get nothing in return. In this case , bands that sell the tickets keep all the money for themselves. If they can publicize the show enough to not sell tickets to their friends and make enough money to cover the cost at the door , then it works out too..

Yes i am still working on it rite now .. finding funds to help bands. But you know how difficult it can be

 

[steviegfc]

haha frm what I see, unless the the probability of the suns is to land on earth, band still basically have to pay, esp in sg, but least this movement gives u a chance to recoup the money, haha if u sell more tickets than u were expected to (say 120 tics), doessit means gets to keep the profit?

 

[ShyamRaj]

haha frm what I see, unless the the probability of the suns is to land on earth, band still basically have to pay, esp in sg, but least this movement gives u a chance to recoup the money, haha if u sell more tickets than u were expected to (say 120 tics), doessit means gets to keep the profit?

Wel considering the fact that when bands sell for some organisers they pay for unsold tix even. In this case whatever the bands sells including profit goes to them. Not a cent comes to Anti P2p

 

[steviegfc]

tho i's not relli into the scene, least see some effort in the movement, its cool if I can helpout in some ways :mrgreen:

 

[Hickey_]

i'll be looking forward to the success of this movement. Good luck.

 

[ShyamRaj]

i'll be looking forward to the success of this movement. Good luck.

Thanks Hickey, i hope people do come forward now and offer their help aswell as add themselves on the myspace.

www.myspace.com/antip2psg

 

[theunknown]

so it is STILL pay to play, difference is when you sell you get 100%. and bands get help in organising, more exposure, get reviews done and so on. i'd say this is good. have the interest to volunteer but school/work schedule is hell enough for me.

 

[biopromax]

Its an Investment. Hope to see this movement goes a long way.

 

[wyldeboon]

gd one bro... i wish u all the best!!!

 

[bigblackbear]

supporting your idea

 

[blank]

I think it's a really good effort on your part, but I want to mention a few things.
The bands are actually still paying to play, unless they sell the tickets which is what they have to do in P2P gigs anyway.
In P2P gigs they actually get a part of the profits if i'm not wrong.
The only difference in this is that the gig gets more publicized.

But anyway I don't think that's the problem.
The problem with P2P gigs is the quality of them, their usually filled with shitty bands. Everyone knows that all the bands aren't auditioned, who the hell would go, even for free?

Quality control is needed, if the style of music isn't your thing then you could pass it to someone else who is into that kind of stuff. Auditions would definitely help but you'd probably have to pay money for that, so I don't expect you to do that since you're not getting any profit from this.
How about you get bands to send you their songs? Then you have a list of bands who are at the very least decent and you list their myspaces or whatever on your myspace page, then bands can listen and find the bands who they want to organize it with. There probably won't be many if you're strict about it. I just see so many mediocre bands , it's like you have the "main bands" to attract all the attention then the rest are filler bands.
I wouldn't mind helping with the QC, if you need the help that is.

Also, getting bigger bands to help is good, but people always only go to the gig for the bigger band, so I don't know how that will work out. The first problem in getting this entire thing to work is exposure, no one ever wants to go to a gig where they haven't heard of a single band. I have no idea how you can get people to do that. Because I sure as hell wouldn't.

For this thing to sustain itself it needs to have a reputation of having quality bands perform, otherwise it's no different from a P2P gig.

my 2cents

 

[tim098]

I really applaud you for your effort man. Amazing.

I fully agree with blank on the QC part. Especially "For this thing to sustain itself it needs to have a reputation of having quality bands perform". If gigs that are associated with your org have a reputation of being horrible, then it will just die out sooner or later.

I don't meant to stereotype but this is true, most of the trash metal hardcore whatever (read TRASH) bands playing currently in p2p gigs sound worse than a horde of dying cats. And its not just the hardcore stuff, even some bands playing the more pop-ish tunes could be way off tune, or out of rhythm half the time. QC will get these people whining and bitching about you, but no QC will get the public saying 'these gigs are of crap quality, what's the point of giving them any interest.'

I say the latter is better, if you really want this to sustain. Because ultimately if this organisation is going to endorse every single gig that goes through it and half of them are of shitty bands, this whole thing will die out due to the public simply passing off every gig as another 'chapalam band' gig, and that would be a true waste because I think you have started something that has the potential to be HUGE.

 

[xiaoviper]

This is so cool Good job!

 

[FluxUs]

pls lah its only when you are tr00ly famous and shit then u no longer need to pay any of yr own money to jam, play gigs or record albums..........

P2P is just an expression for those organisers who prey on desperate unsuspecting young kids who also may be too darn lazy to org their own shows. Seriously, just invite a few frens into the jam studio to watch you is cheaper for both you and yr poor frens. Unless of course u all got a lotta money to burn.

 

[theblueark]

I like how you've put much thought into this. You might be covering new ground.

However, the old ground will always be there:
1. Ultimately, who's paying?
2. Ultimately, who's organizing?
3. Where will no name, no experience, no skills bands, get their first experience? That they may learn from it and better themselves in the future.

The so called "pay to play" has always been the solution to these 3 questions. Every other system has just been shifting about the duties of who's organizing and who's paying.

"Pay to play"
1. You pay
2. I organize
3. Anyone can play

Failed solution
1. You pay - disguised as "no need sell tickets, but give some money to help out"
2. I organize
3. Anyone can play

Failed solution 2
1. I find people to pay - nobody wanted to pay for gigs with no name no skill bands
2. I organize
3. Anyone can play

Failed solution 3
1. I find people to pay
2. I organize
3. Only good bands can play - How is this different from a normal band gig? How does this address the bands who nobody wants?

Instead of selling 20 tickets for organisers who dont give a cent back to you , get together maybe 5 bands . Each of you put in maybe 200 bucks .

Considering your band has 4 members. This equals to each member putting in 50 bucks.

with 5 bands doing the same you now have a pool of a 1000 bucks.

Each band sells 20 tickets at 10 bucks each . This will equal to 5 bands selling 100 tickets which would cover a 1000 bucks.

Really, how are these 2 cases any different?
Case 1: I sell 20 tickets $10 each. I have to come out $200
Case 2: I have to come out $200. I sell 20 tickets $10 each.

I think the idea of a cohesive network of people working together towards a common goal is good. I think it could be better if people stop trying to use the "pay to play" run. It's getting really old.

 

[LeMovement]

Everything has a price. Hello, it's DIY.
And in DIY, it involves money though in this AntiP2P situation, it's the bands that gets involved.

Theoretically, Pay to Play will always be existent in DIY.

 

[ShyamRaj]

Ok let me get this point across to some of you here . When i say p2p i am talking about bands paying organisers to play instead of being paid.

How are bands supposed to get a venue , print posters , tickets etc if they do not come out with a capital amount. I was just giving an example here. Instead or organisers telling bands to sell 20 tix and pay for unsold tix , why dont bands do the same but in this case keep all the money for themselves. If the bands dont want to put a ticket price , so be it . Ultimately the decision is up to them .

The aim of this movement is to promote DIY gigs among bands instead of being ticket runners for organisers aswell as performers.

You know what i am really sick and tired of ? Ppl here have so much to say. So many ppl have read this post but so far in my PM i have only 2 volunteers . How sick is that? But when it comes to people saying our scene sucks , some of you softies have a thousand and one things to say. Instead of talking so much do something to help . Come out of that screen and really come forward to lend a hand. I'm sure some of you have more talents to spare rather than just talking/typing rite.

As for QC. Yes QC will not be compramised as the people from Meshradio , timbre and Xroads dont want rubbish aswell. In terms publicizing the gigs yes not a problem. In terms of playing their songs on Meshradio and forwarding them to timbre . Have some decent recordings .

So bands who want a head start please forward your demos/ band bio's to

musicbyshyamraj@gmail.com

If you want a review done for the upcoming issue of Crossroads magazine.

 

[theblueark]

The aim of this movement is to promote DIY gigs among bands instead of being ticket runners for organisers aswell as performers.

Promoting DIY gigs and being anti-something seem to be 2 different issues. I'm thinking it's better to have more focus instead of trying to collect people through flaming the other.

Your model is:
1. You pay yourself
2. You organize, thereby getting getting paid, by yourself
3. You can play

Which of course, is the essence of DIY.

The pay to play model is:
1. You pay
2. I organize for you
3. You can play

Which is a totally different model.

If I may use my chicken rice analogy again, you are trying to promote chicken rice by saying you're the anti-wanton mee club.

My hunch tells me you'd do better if you focus on the "The aim of this movement is to promote DIY gigs among bands" instead of the "instead of being ticket runners for organisers aswell as performers." portion. But then, I have no experience, so maybe your way works better. Go ahead.