Advice for an aspiring keyboardist

[eshana89]

Hey there, I'm kinda new to this forum, and I'm looking for a bit of help here about buying suitable keyboards.

I used the play classical piano when I was really young, till I stopped aft some years. Recently though, my interest in playing has been reignited and I'm raring to go again!

I'm in a state of openness/exploration now about what I wanna do with the keyboards. Def no more pure classical, and I'd def play alternative music & vocal accompaniment (think tori amos, fiona apple, damien rice...). I'd try jazz too! But I also want more than just a piano, cuz I'd wanna make use of the other functions to try composition, simple arrangements with diff voices etc. Never done it before though! It's more of something I really hope to be able to play around with and explore.

Based on all this I was hoping for a nice blend between a digital piano (good hammer action!) and a synth/arranger with all those functions that I can play with. Tried the DGX620 (which has many of those "functions"), and thought the sound/touch was okay, and THEN I tried the P140 and oh-my-gosh it FELT and SOUNDED sooo much better! Realised how important good piano sound/touch is to me, and I was compelled to get the P140 despite it being slightly out of my budget.

I -didn't- buy it though. Still sorta hesitant cuz I'm still uncertain about how suitable it is for me. It's more of a digital piano, which is good in a way, but it also means fewer "other" functions, though it does have some things I hope to have (eg: 14 voices, a recorder, 2track sequencer etc.). BUT the thing is I'm not sure WHICH functions are necessary/important for someone like me! I read the specifications, but with no EXPERIENCE of it I can't really tell what things would/would not be useful or significant to me -- what I can let go of, or what I should try to have at my level, and with my aspirations.

So looking for some advice here:
Obviously noone can tell me exactly what -I- need, but based on YOUR experience, what did you use on the keyboards to achieve what purposes, or what type of music? Or if that's kinda vague, what type/models of keyboard do you personally think may suit someone like me?

Now, the only thing I'm quite sure of is that I want relatively realistic piano touch/sound (not necessarily THE best la. but good enough). Other functions wise, I'm really just looking for any input and insight. Besides the Yamaha DGX620 and P140, I also noted the Casio PX320, KORG SP-250 -- but I don't know all that much about them. Haven't had the chance to try out others in the P series either, although from what I heard pianotouch/sound-wise the P70 really can't match up to the P140, and I can't seem to find the rest in other official online catalogues. Price wise, I initially wanted <$1500, but now may push up to <$1800 or around there (the P140 i saw is being sold $1700+).

Any other suitable options anyone can suggest to me? Trying to be cautious about spending money here! Thanks for your time =)

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[edit]

alright just made a close comparison between P140 and Korg SP250

COST: P140 costs about $600 more

TOUCH: P140 (graded hammer -effect- keyboard), SP250 (real weighted hammer action 3 keyboard, light/normal/heavy touch control)
>> not sure about the difference here. might go down to try out the korg one soon but I'm no big expert so I don't know if I'd be able to tell really well actually =.= anyone has any comments on this?

SOUND: P140 (14 distinct voices, 3 variations), SP250 (30 sounds - 3 pianos, 7 electric pianos, harpsichord, 2 clavs, vibraphone, marimba, acoustic guitar, 3 jazz organs, 3 church organs, 3 strings, 3 choirs)
>> sounds like the SP250 is more like what I want! =\

EFFECTS: P140 (5 diff reverbs, chorus, phaser, tremolo, rotary speaker), SP250 (Reverb, Chorus, 3 levels each)
>> okay I guess this is what I mean by not knowing how useful these functions will be to me!

both support half pedaling, have metronomes.. P140 has 64 notes polyphony, SP250 has 60 notes (odd number?). oh and P140 has a recorder.

Okay so just need some insights.. it's about value for money, but also what I need/don't need, or what is wise (whatever wise is). Advice anyone? =x

 

[pf]

You might wanna read this to find out more about pianos/synths/arrangers. http://soft.com.sg/forum/showthread.php?t=8260

I don't think have that kind of piano focused keys with arranger functions. If you wanna work on arranging, don't think a 2 track sequencer is enough.

Examples
-a synth - Yamaha OS3
-arranger - Korg PA50
- digital piano with weighted keys and bells and whistles - Yamaha Clavinova CVP

These examples have more or less been discussed in the forum. Can do a search for them.

 

[SoNiCbRaT]

In the past when softwares ain't that popular or advance, when we started out, we save and save to buy something, maybe buy the wrong stuffs even. Oh those were the days.

My take on it is:

Since you want the best of both worlds but don't have the proper budget for it (read: in the synth world, every cent counts usually... you pay for what you get; there's no "yeah cheap and powerful synth")... if you are getting anything less than a thousand, it's either old, outdated, used, small, sounds cheesy (by industrial standard, unless you are doing underground chiptunes lofi music or you are a famous band/musician and you use casio SA-5 to make music).

But with softwares now, I'll say... it can happen! Virtually that is. Get a 76-88-keys weighted or semi-weighted MIDI Controller Keyboard... get a bit of softwares (usually it comes bundled with Ableton or Reason or Cubase; lite versions)... and you have a VST DAW with "powerful" sequencing (many "functions"); many effects (as many as you can download from free VST sites); as many sequencing tracks, or multi-tracks (depending on your RAM)... and you can always upgrade to full versions when you have the money.

As for hammer action. If you are not so picky, I'll suggest you get use to using unrealistic hammering actions. I'll say it to anyone. I am a classical pianist by training too. But if you want to explore synth, you have to know how to play well on light plastic keys too, no? You can't really find perfect emulation of the hammering and weight anyway. The better ones will cost alot more than your budget. So, try to get use to it. There are really good synths out there that doesn't have good hammering/weighted keys. But so what? You want the sounds or you want your black and whites?

I am quite a hardware person actually. But you really need the budget for it. The question is "what do you want to explore?" The workstation and synthesis world? Proper arrangements and trying to make your tracks sounds "realistic"? You can really do these with your listed considerations (unless you have serious plug-ins or you are really good with mixing, eq'ing then you might be able to). Don't buy something that's "entry level" because you are "entry level" when you really want to explore... how to explore with a PA50? SP250? P140? Ok, basic level stuffs, can't do much. And then what?... you'll find you need to expand when you go serious. This is my take on it, of course nothing wrong to get "entry level" stuffs... I am just suggesting about the "Software" approach where you can learn more with the same budget (more or less).

Hope I helped... Peace!

 

[pf]

Yeah......fun toys require $$$. Depends on how much interests the thread setter has and wanna spend.

SoNiCbRaT did some wonders with the Korg M3 which is a new arranger, that's posted very recently in this forum. Probably can search and listen to those pieces. The price a bit steep.....like above $3k, right?

 

[eshana89]

hmmm okay. get the point! fun toys and $$, makes sense.. think now I'm mostly between P140, Casio PX320, Korg SP250. the software approach sounds great, but I also really want that acoustic piano feel.

soo I think given my budget, I'll stick to a good digital piano, then amongst those look at which ones have the best additional functions.. if I ever want to do more, I'll have to make do with what I have, or hopefully turn it up a notch with software! (eg if it doesn't have a sequencer, I'll arrange and layer it on my computer)

in that case anyone has any insights on those 3 keyboards? how does the touch and sound compare btwn them?

I know technically touch and sound-wise P140 should be the best, but it's also the most expensive and has the least voices, although it has a recorder and 2-track sequencer, like i mentioned. for touch: the casio one is just described as "touch response", haven't gotten a chance to try. korg - "real weighted hammer action 3 keyboard". how do they fare next to yamaha's graded hammer effect?

(thanks for the help btw really just venturing into new territory here so kinda noob! really appreciate it =))

 

[Cheez]

Hi, you'll need to be certain what type of sound you want to play. Having synth with 1000 sounds is a waste of money if you're going to use 5-10 of them most of the time. So, with the kind of music you are thinking of playing, what sounds will you be using 90% of the time?

Next, you'll need to prioritise which function is most important to you. Which one comes first: touch, sound, arranger function, sequencer, ergonomics for live playing, built-in speakers, portability etc.

For touch, nothing comes close to Yamaha. They have the closest touch to the actual piano.If you're a beginner, I would not suggest going the software just yet. There's a learning curve, not to mention hardware setups etc. You want something that you can play music with a quick switch of a button - no frills, easy to get what you want. Too high a learning curve at the beginner level will put you off and destroys the fun that's supposed to come with playing a keyboard.

 

[pf]

Good point on the learning curve.

 

[digital]

I have played both these digitial pianos for a while in the past.

Hmm, Yamaha P140 has good sound and a 3 layer sound! If piano is the main sound you will be using, i'd say go for P140 . its a very very good digital piano

Korg's piano sound is quite synthethic...
It has louder speakers, the keys are lighter than those on a Yamaha. the other sounds that come along on both the P140 and SP250 arent very nice in my opinion

Casio doesn't even come close

But then again its all about preference.

 

[SilverBeast]

eshana89, welcome back to the world of keyboarding! Do consider sonicbrat's and cheez's advice seriously. Unless you're rich or have a financial sponsor, then I'd say go ahead and do whatever you want even if it would turn out to be a mistake. Nevertheless, don't waste money, OK?

Personally, I'm into arranger keyboards nowadays coz I'm clear I wanted to learn about realtime playing and understand music styles for now and so far, I'm enjoying it! In fact, I'm hopeful about upgrading to something better. But do note that when it comes to arrangers, you have less control over expressiveness as compared to a workstation coz for one, the styles are preset even though some allow downloads of additional styles. Unless you can write the styles yourself, you will eventually face limitations. Go to youtube and you'll be able to out how people play with the different types and makes of keyboards.

Yes, many of keyboards have recorders and sequencers, but do you know how they function and can serve your needs? Do go and do some homework on sequencers and then compare with the choice of keyboards you've in mind and ask yourself whether or not it can meet your aspirations of composing and arranging. Also get to know what synthesizer workstations are all about and what the different components do.

BTW, your preferrred choices are all digital pianos. It would be more fulfilling to have something with at least a pitch bend wheel for bending instrument voices like sax and guitar.
Enjoy your music journey!

 

[Cheez]

Silverbeast, you moving into arranger keyboards? If you ever get a Tyros 2, tell me! I'll drop by your place when I'm in Singapore!!!!

I'm also very interested in arranger keyboards. But because of the limitations, I'm exploring a different route - using software. Not difficult to get a good GM template, but finding a good arranger software that's as versatile as Yamaha is really tough. For one - most of them require you to press the notebook keyboard to trigger the styles.

 

[SilverBeast]

Tyros2?! Yes, it's in my 2008 x'mas buy list! Cheez, you wanna be my santa claus?...Then you can buy it, play with it for a while and pass it to me later on in giftwrap!

As I know my foundation in music wasn't firm, I've been going back to basics to strenghten on that and having an arranger keyboard really helps a lot. I guess with an arranger, you are like a band leader, while with a synth workstation, you are like a composer/songwriter.

All this while, I've been looking for a good workstation, but many didn't have that comfortable keyboard feel I was looking for until I tested the Motif XS. I was about to sink my hands into one last dec but sadly, I needed the cash for my kid's medical bill . Then again, that could've been a blessing in disguise coz I later found out that the keybed of Tyros2 is exactly the same as the XS'. So, I'm quite set to get the Tyros2 but only later this year...unless any PSR which comes cheaper has that keybed feel.

Now, I might be looking at the s500 (a used one if any) coz its keys feel just like the e403 I had which is springy but firm and very comfortable. Somehow, the s700 and s900 fail to have that feel coz I guess it's the megavoice thing. Although lacking in many features of the s700/900, what I'm looking forward to in the s500 is its extensive style control like the hihger end PSRs and Tyros2 (3 intros, 4 variations, 4 fills, 3 ending). Indeed, I'm hooked onto playing with an arranger more than I did with a synth!

Anyway, where's our eshana89? Went shopping already?