Keyboards in Live play (gigs) and Church Play

[Quasar]

Playing in church is very different from performing live. Hence the needs will be different.

You will not need to have ultra-realistic sounds; lead instruments are not very important; in fact, the playing styles are vastly different. Some people may think it makes no diffference, but the skills-set needed to play in church is very different from live performance.

The sounds and equipment needed are therefore, also quite different. The entire purpose is different. You can be an excellent live performer, but a terrible player in church.

When playing in church, the keyboardist is aware of multiple things at the same time - other players, the worship leader, the people singing, the backup choir, the acoustics of the place (which is usually bad), and improvise according to different situations - all these things go on at the same time...

This was posted by Cheez during a discussion on a good setup for church playing in the 'Keyboard Gear' sub forum. Let's discuss this!

What is your style of play in church?

If you play in gigs and play in church as well, what is your opinion? Any tips?

What setup do you use?

Do softsynths work?


I'm quite new to all this so I don't have much opinions but I did see two very opposing styles in action:

1. The Multitasker
Ari, the keyboardist in Paul Baloche's band use a soft synth + drum machine + lots of other gears during live play when they were in Singapore. Great hammond player.

Only comment is that he seemed to spend more time fiddling with gear than playing, but the results were still nice overall


1. The Minimalist
I saw Steve Thompson (Graham Kendrick's keyboardist & music director) play... He's a great player that I respect very much, especially after attending his clinic where he played the drums, the bass guitar, the acoustic guitar AND the keyboard WHILE arranging music for the brass section. Super impressive.

His setup (rented for him by the organizers) consisted of a 3080 + a kurzweil keyboard (I think it was a PC1x). No idea whether the 3080 had expansion cards).

He spent a lot of time directing the flow of music for the whole team (i.e. brass, guitar, bass, etc.) as well as playing nice leads/intros/mood music.

I was very impressed by Steve's music as well as his words that 'we are stewards of our God-given talent and that we *must* continuously strive to improve'. This is the main reason I'm researching better equipment as well as ways to improve my playing style!

 

[iansoh]

i play gigs with a blues band and in church too, main service and kids' programme.

setups:
1) only piano - sometimes layered with DX7-ish e-piano or strings but seldom. even for these modern punk-ish sounding (ok, very subjective adjective there) worship songs. can't name any titles now cos i'm bad at remembering such things. one of my key influences in church piano playing is the band Journey. (gear: some yamaha clavinova)

2) if the band is (unncessarily) big, i.e 3 guitars 2 percussions etc.. i play synth. analog-type sounds, hammond, clavinet/rhodes, or orchestral combi. i hate to play strings and just hold chords, as some musically-challenged guitarist-worship leaders might ask their keyboardists to do. lately i've started replacing the bass player with left hand bass in split keyboard mode.

kids programme:
a lot of spontaneity involved, musicians are kept to a minimum. just one drummer and one keyboardist, max. i play either piano only, or the electone organ, which i use in drawbar mode only. left hand bass.

no fancy gear for me, no softsynths. too much equipment to cart around, too much hassle to set up. simple but efficient. used to play 2 keyboards - piano + synth, but found that one will tend to be under-utilised.

even when i play gigs, i don't bother to bring my own keyboards anymore (i used to bring them out every time) unless absolutely necessary. i just make do with whatever keyboard the gig organiser provides. at most i bring my own sustain and expression pedals. i personally believe it's in the fingers, not the gear.

if i were to ever use softsynths in church, i would probably only use FM7(for the famous e.piano sound), a bit of B4, GPO. very subjective lah, depends on individual preference and style.

hmm. actually, am i answering the question(s)? or are u looking for something else?

 

[Quasar]

Wow so you're a professional musician then. Is it a full time job?

kids programme:
a lot of spontaneity involved, musicians are kept to a minimum. just one drummer and one keyboardist, max.

Heh I used to play for the kids as well, but pulled out after I started studying for my programmer's certification.

I used to be the only musician. It's OK most of the time except that I had a lot of trouble playing the faster 'punk-ish' songs. The main difficulty is keeping it as exciting as it sounds when the rhythm is driven by the guitar.

For that reason I started learning the guitar as well, but lately, I just realized that I just needed to improve my keyboard playing Heh I have a grade 8 but feel that all that training was not useful (except for the theory part & scales!) when playing modern songs.

The feel is so different! I remember when I first started out, my left hand used to play 'classical' style patterns when accompanying (e.g. Mozart's Alla Turca's left hand!). Feel so embarassed whenever I remember those days!

hmm. actually, am i answering the question(s)? or are u looking for something else?

Yeah... all this and more It is very interesting seeing how more experienced play and learning from their experience.

Keep it coming!

 

[Cheez]

Church playing can be quite complex. An lot of different situations requiring different skill sets.

1. Kids. I've played for kiddies as well for about 10 years before I got too busy to do that. I've not played for kids for almost 10 years now and I miss that. Our setup is terribly simple - one piano. They don't need a loud band or multi-instruments. They need to have their short span of attention focussed on what they are singing. As the pianist, I must make sure: 1. the key is right (the vocal range of children are different from adults - so songs sung by adults must be transposed down a number of tones); 2. fun and catchy rhythm - this always works to get them fired up and excited (a few glissandoes, cute phrases here and there makes a lot of difference); 3. smile and have a great time (!!) - the kids will watch you very closely. If you have a scowling face, they will likely put on the same face. 4. Be ready to improvise. By improvise, I don't mean the notes - I mean get ready to do wacky things with the piano and flow along with the song leader. He cracks a joke - you respnd musically with something; the kids get out of order and he tries to get them to keey quiet, you respond accordingly with your piano (there are things to play to get the attention of the kids).

2. Band setup situation. It all depends on what the band consists of. Really, I think 1 keyboard is enough most of the time. Like Iansoh, I never like holding string notes. The keyboardist should never play too much - the idea is not to show off skills or get the attention of people - I always think I've failed if people focussed too much on my playing by telling me how great I played. If there are 2 keyboards, I think keyboard number 2 requires greater skill than keyboard number 1. Keyboard 1 usually plays the main instrument (piano, epiano etc). Keyboard 2 usually plays the backup - strings, pads, leads etc. For strings, the key is not to sustain - there's no need for keyboard 2 to sustain strings; it can be done by just one keyboard by layering the sound. If strings is the instrument, it should be played like an orchestral string section - left and right hand different (reflects the 4 sections of the string section). Use a lot of running scales to build climax when applicable; and the expression pedal is indispensable to control the volume.

3. Solo piano. That's the fun part I like. No one playing except me! In situations like this, I always play more than when playing in a band. I will play nothing less than 3 parts (like Bach's 3-part invention - although I usually play 4 separate melodic parts). Know when to play quietly, and when to stop playing altogether. The piano can be an interesting instrument - by using different playing styles, I can emulate strings, brass, flute, percussion (eg tympani) and harp etc. A lot of tricks come in here.

I think the main thing is eye-contact. As for softsynth, I don't think it has a great place in church playing. Setup should be simple and quick to setup. I would go for the minimalist setup.

 

[zenguan88]

haha looks like cheez is very experience

i saw a many church band play b4 say for eg FCBC( youth service ) , from what i noted they always have 2 keyboardist one would play a piano sample all the way the other mainly play strings.

i would definately love to hear more ways of playing from cheez espically the part where he says :"I can emulate strings, brass, flute, percussion (eg tympani) and harp etc" sorry thaqt i dono how to quote. haha and not to mention the way he plays the strings is admirable i mean using 4 parts harmony to play. hmmmz for me i would usually set the strings indivually for eg violin i would set it from a low G to a HI C and the cello to its range viola and double bass. although some may just play orchestra sounds i prefer to layer strings to 4 sections as by this way i have more control of the strings like quitening down the double bass etc. i dono if this is good but it works fine for me.

yes i totally agree the piano is a very revolutional instrument.

 

[iansoh]

haha, i'm not a professional musician. i'm in my final year of university. the end of freedom draws near...

 

[zenguan88]

although cheez prefers a minialist setup./ i would definately would love to use softsythn on stage( i don play in church btw ). i think church music its meant to worship rather to focus on the band's skill although you do get compliment but the main piortiy is to worship.

but lets say if we are on a stage to wow the crowds i would definately would love to see a softsythn performance. with such great intense technology why not use it? why hook it up at home for demo's only

hahas but u rarely get to see a keyboardist that brings his laptop and sythn along to perform. it will definately be an excitment for me to see one. wonder if cheez will do that anytime soon. i definately would love to hear his giga ha

 

[iansoh]

Actually i've found softsynths on stage to be quite overkill. All that detail that goes into the samples are lost on stage, it wont sound sufficiently more 'realistic' than a rompler synth to justify its use. In fact it might possibly sound worse. Not to mention, as with all things computer, there's the risk of unexpected crashing, hardware or software.

IMO softsynths are great in the recording studio - esp those heavy samplers.

 

[Cheez]

Well Quasar, I'm no expert - just playing for a long time.

I totally agree with Iansoh re: softsynths and softsamplers. The whole idea of using softsamplers is realism (emulating real instruments), of which the definition is lost in a loud mix or large hall where we usually play. As for softsynths (not softsamplers), hardware is more than sufficient since in this case, the software is trying to emulate the hardware synths anyway!

In the event of an unexpected crash, it will take the notebook forever to boot up - something you can't have. For hardware, it hardly ever crashes. If it does in some kind of freak midi disaster, it's just as easy as turning the synth off and on.

It looks somewhat cool for those off stage, but again, the whole idea is not to draw attention to ourselves.

Softsynths and samplers being used in home and studio is not so much as for "demo" purposes. There's still a place for live performance - for people who uses a lot of softsynths, it beats having had to carry heavy loads of modules around. Otherwise, it is very good for studio use and recording - where we want high definition/ultra-realistic sounds.

Having said that, I've used my notebook in live church situations a few times (using Gigastudio)! It's more of an experiment. I've sequenced the entire worship with full orchestral backing (+ drums, bass etc), played the piano and epiano and I have only one guitarist with me. We achieved a full sounding "Integrity-like" effect - but drew too much attention to ourselves! People were too amazed and just stared at us. After the worship, people just flooded around us to look at our notebook setup etc. I've never done it again after that. But I'm going to attempt one more time in a small group setup - perhaps around Christmas time. Sequencing takes a lot of time, not to mention arrnaging the music.

 

[Indigo_blues]

i used to play keyboards in church but play mostly bass for the past 3 years plus now..

i don't mind having lots of keyboards but in church its mostly a minimalist setup... a jv1080 paired with a kurzweil pc88.. sometimes i will stack a roland d-70 on top if i think i need to do a lot of split layering for the set..

i also played 2nd keyboard quite abit sometime back when we had more keyboardists.. as cheez says its quite an interesting role to play and not everyone can play the role cause you need to be more creative than the 1st keyboardist.. favourite sounds to use as 2nd keyboardist includes the horns/sax/trumpet sections, sometimes a solo trumpet to add depth and highlight, sometimes a cello sound to give the song a more meditative or melancholic mood, sometimes bells and tinkles, sometimes even doubling as a percussionist with the conga/bonga on keyboard.. quite fun and interesting and adds alot to the sound of the band..

nowadays i find however that most of the 'modern' worship songs don't really need alot of keyboards as most of them are guitar driven... sad to say most of the time the keyboardist is relagated to just fill-ins.. however for slower songs the keyboardist still plays a very important role.. glad to say that bassist is still in demand for any kind of worship style.. heh..

most keyboard players tend to overplay so i conciously tell myself to play less each time i'm playing keyboard.. nothing can be more frustrating than being squeezed out of sonic space to play in a band... teamwork and coordination play a big part.

 

[Cheez]

The worse thing keyboard no. 2 can do is to play strings as full chords then sustain it. Imagine - one full string patch is actually 12 or 16 violins. If the keyboardist play a sustain chord with both hands, it becomes more than 100 strings! That is a real muddle of sounds!

I was in KL once and in one of the church there, I heard a second keyboard play the strings with only the right hand. She uses her left hand to control mainly the volume control (she had no expression pedal). And it is not just continual sustain - it is actually moving string parts, but nothing too full. It emulates violins 1 and 2 very well. It was wonderful to hear somebody "mature" enough not play too much (using only ONE hand to play keyboard!).

Yes, indigo, sadly many songs are guitar focussed. Keyboards do very well in fast songs as well!

 

[Indigo_blues]

yeah actually the 2nd keyboardist's left hand should *always* be either on the tremolo wheel, the pitch bend wheel or the volume/expression slider... the D-70 is great because all these controls are right next to each other and it makes expressing that trumpet or cello sound that much more easier... Playing with the volume to control the attack/fade of the horn section makes the horns really come alive too... just like real horn players do..

ah this brings back memories.. haven't played 2nd keyboard in such a long time..